tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post2521699036377902413..comments2024-03-27T14:57:37.031+05:30Comments on Jabberwock: Biases in movie-watching: two views of John Ford (and Kai Po Che)Jabberwockhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10210195396120573794noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-84329210080395683272013-08-23T11:15:23.585+05:302013-08-23T11:15:23.585+05:30Very interesting discussion with no simple answer ...Very interesting discussion with no simple answer :-). Should the creator of a art be held accountable for the results of his produce (so should the bands whose songs have to violence be allowed to wash their hands off the whole thing) ? Do we place art / creation of something worthwhile above everything else? does the quality of the end product excuse the bad intentions behind the creation? I would say that the artist has the right to create what he wants and we have the right to criticise / trash / appreciate what we want. <br /><br />I agree with your point about hostile media effect. I observe it all the time when I am watching sports and I feel the whole world ( Journalists, commentators, presenters) are biased idiots conspiring against my team. But you must agree that there is some truth to it as well with some rabid , biased and agenda laden journalism.Sidnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-40515445561409801752013-08-22T16:06:09.620+05:302013-08-22T16:06:09.620+05:30
Very good and interesting
artical.
...<br /><br /> Very good and interesting <br /> artical.<br /> Shirish Mehta.minarishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13627385042405001103noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-13850845853050778002013-08-21T09:41:49.536+05:302013-08-21T09:41:49.536+05:30As with life, so with films. I wonder why some peo...As with life, so with films. I wonder why some people find condemning the Godhra train burning as defending what happened later. One has to put disclaimers before saying that Godhra train burning was also hurtful and indefensible. I do not support Narendra Modi, I think his culpability is more than those who burnt the train but that doesn't mean that the killing of passengers in that train even as it may have be an impromptu act of hatred (and not a preplanned one) should never be brought up in discussions. <br /><br />Your post is very honest and clinical (in a good way). Anjalinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-80450589064567600302013-08-20T13:26:01.450+05:302013-08-20T13:26:01.450+05:30Interesting indeed.. ! Thanks.Interesting indeed.. ! Thanks.Ruminations and Musingshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13349741957366437728noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-4771712093298699822013-08-20T11:29:37.849+05:302013-08-20T11:29:37.849+05:30In other words, it is not enough for the film to a...<i>In other words, it is not enough for the film to admit to Thursday’s mistakes quietly while holding to the legend of military duty</i><br /><br />The film is not in the business of "admitting" mistakes or passing judgments on people/cultures. It's simply a story. You are free to take away what you want from it. It's amazing how a man like Thomson can't grasp this.<br /><br />It's interesting how politics can skew the judgments of very fine commentators. Thanks to the 60s and all the left-wing counter-culture of that decade, generations of Americans have grown up with a jaundiced view of their history.<br /><br />People want to believe that a bunch of white men landed from Europe on the East coast and started massacring every Indian in sight. That's not what happened! The making of America in 18th/19th cen involved decades of coexistence and intermingling as well as trade between the white man and the Indian interspersed with violence. The reason why the white man's culture eventually prevailed was not because he was especially cruel or cunning, but because he happened to belong to a more advanced civilization.shrikanthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03898755392584822638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-73608570324354950672013-08-20T11:21:26.464+05:302013-08-20T11:21:26.464+05:30Here one should point out that even Ford detractor...<i>Here one should point out that even Ford detractors usually concede that Fort Apache was among the first Hollywood features to present Indians in a sympathetic light and to introspect about their treatment</i><br /><br />Yep. As I've mentioned elsewhere in one of your blogposts, Fort Apache was a "revisionist western" before critics started coining these fancy words.<br /><br />However I am not sure Ford ever had an agenda to sympathize or critique any group. He is too old-world and common-sense driven man to do that sort of thing! Here's a man who can do <i>Fort Apache</i> in 1948 and then do a <i>Searchers</i> in 1956. He expects mature viewers not to see a contradiction here. Sadly most viewers/critics are not mature enough.<br /><br />Yes. Indians were ill-treated. Yes. Indians were also often barbarian and uncivilized. So were several "white" adventurers. There's no contradiction here. A man like Ford who was born in the 19th cen and much closer to America's past than us understands this nuance very well. Unlike a cosmopolitan Brit like Thomson.<br />shrikanthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03898755392584822638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-29821865137865519152013-08-20T11:02:43.668+05:302013-08-20T11:02:43.668+05:30Interesting. I had similar questions myself while ...Interesting. I had similar questions myself while watching Ishaqzaade (and to a lesser extent, Cocktail) which set up a terrific heroine, only to have society annihilate her in the second half. In both cases, the directors responded to accusations of sexism with the argument that they were only depicting society. I, however , feel there is a difference in saying “I am depicting prejudices on society, some of which may reside in me” and saying “Here I am, holding up a perfect mirror to society”. No filmmaker/author can be a perfect mirror after all, they view the world with their own prism and are the gods of the universe they create, with their own sets of morality. I think this is especially true of Hindi films, which tend to follow a traditional narrative conclusion, with justice/injustice meted out to the deserving and not so deserving respectively at the end – a film climax, is essentially a Judgement day for most following the traditional narrative.<br /><br />Also, I think a filmmaker is justified in saying “Look, this is MY narrative, not a comment on society”. But when we as viewers step out and take the macro view, if we see a dominant narrative emerging, what does that tell us about the society and its filmmakers?<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11737559429258062397noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-90238246374288915862013-08-20T09:18:17.524+05:302013-08-20T09:18:17.524+05:30Apoorva: thanks. And yes, needless to say, some of...Apoorva: thanks. And yes, needless to say, some of the questions mentioned here are applicable in other contexts, including the many conversations and arguments that have been happening over misogyny in cinema. If you have written something on the subject - even if only informally - do share.<br /><br />Rahul: I suspect there's a Bengali joke involving "ki hocche" waiting to be told here, but I can't think of it.Jabberwockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10210195396120573794noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-19315719203645393692013-08-19T23:50:10.008+05:302013-08-19T23:50:10.008+05:30hahaha, and neither of them have a Che Guevara con...hahaha, and neither of them have a Che Guevara connection. That begs the question- Was Che Guevara of Gujarati ancestry? Rahulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08600228969911790479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-41827229315666439512013-08-19T23:46:27.738+05:302013-08-19T23:46:27.738+05:30Very interesting piece, Jai!
I loved how you spell...Very interesting piece, Jai!<br />I loved how you spelled out your questions and sort of let them hang in the air.<br />I've grappled quite a lot with the issues around the portrayal of women in cinema, and wondered which depictions/styles/motives condone or ignore male chauvinism. I realized too that each case must be placed in its context, and even then answers may not emerge. I think acknowledging the complexity of the questions may well be the most important step in a resolution of some kind.Apuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01173853780637649858noreply@blogger.com