tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post2415044150072266908..comments2024-03-29T12:59:00.612+05:30Comments on Jabberwock: Irawati Karve and Yuganta: an anthropologist's MahabharataJabberwockhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10210195396120573794noreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-73064816333716565672016-11-04T15:33:50.241+05:302016-11-04T15:33:50.241+05:30One version of Mahabharat says Sikhandi was marrie...One version of Mahabharat says Sikhandi was married. In fact, it was his marriage that triggered the need to change his gender.Sudhirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08728727792844289460noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-19323158909495877622016-02-28T13:16:03.277+05:302016-02-28T13:16:03.277+05:30Why is it necessary that only historical documents...Why is it necessary that only historical documents need to be analyzed? <br /><br />Personally I believe that Mahabharata and Ramayana were a part of Indian history, even if it is not it makes sense to understand the complex story line and analyse the various sides of the story like strategy, behavior and war.Jyothsnahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10314807799673884707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-20558373304563265692015-03-01T12:57:10.999+05:302015-03-01T12:57:10.999+05:30While I agree with Ms Karwe in her character analy...While I agree with Ms Karwe in her character analysis of Bhishm and Karn, I can not agree to her depiction of Draupadi's question in the gambling house as impertinent. I have written about this topic on my blog. I hope it is ok to post the link here rather than write it all over again. http://riddlesinmahabharat.blogspot.in/Sudhirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08728727792844289460noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-14773863875252065192014-10-26T09:52:51.845+05:302014-10-26T09:52:51.845+05:30Is it a translation of Vyasparva? or perhaps retel...Is it a translation of Vyasparva? or perhaps retelling of Vyasparva much like Bhimsen and Bhima were of Randamoozham? I cannot seem to find Vyasparva in English.Impinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-87795649160676297822012-01-01T18:19:23.074+05:302012-01-01T18:19:23.074+05:30when you read karve for the first time she surpris...when you read karve for the first time she surprised you but after some analysis one finds her narrow viewed on certain issues, one of such issues being draupadi's question.in light of pertaining to legality of her question she did away with the philosphical and ethical value of it. can anyone suggest some essays that i can read on draupadi's question in sabha parva?nishahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09764061088357628572noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-48137040025176254862012-01-01T18:14:46.447+05:302012-01-01T18:14:46.447+05:30when i read karve for the first time, i was awestr...when i read karve for the first time, i was awestruck. she told me a lot of things that i did'nt know about and if left to our spiritual "gurus" would have never known about. But when we finally discussed her in class i realised how narrow is her point of view about certain things. but here i am particularly interested in her analysis of draupadi, she has greatly misjudged her quetions in sabha parva. in light of legality of her question karve forgot the ethical and philosphical value of her ques. i have to write an academic essay about it. does anyone know any text which might help me?<br />nishanishahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09764061088357628572noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-20559885941453630342011-06-04T08:54:16.705+05:302011-06-04T08:54:16.705+05:30Apart from Bhishma and Karna, I think she has sket...Apart from Bhishma and Karna, I think she has sketched Draupadi beautifully. I was particularly startled by her description of Draupadi's question to the Assembly as foolish. On second thoughts I realised the truth of Karve's assertion. It was indeed foolish for a young bride to pretend to understand what baffled many learned and experienced people in the assembly. The most touching part however for Draupadi realising Dharma's life long hurt at the last minute and Bhima's devotion.the penguinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03774117308484173099noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-91164671001324023652011-06-04T08:52:55.930+05:302011-06-04T08:52:55.930+05:30Apart from Bhishma and Karna, I think she has sket...Apart from Bhishma and Karna, I think she has sketched Draupadi beautifully. I was particularly startled by her description of Draupadi's question to the Assembly as foolish. On second thoughts I realised the truth of Karve's assertion. It was indeed foolish for a young bride to pretend to understand what baffled many learned and experienced people in the assembly. The most touching part however for Draupadi realising Dharma's life long hurt at the last minute and Bhima's devotion.the penguinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03774117308484173099noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-80000874958073645382010-08-27T10:21:49.925+05:302010-08-27T10:21:49.925+05:30Ajit: check these two posts about my friend Prem P...Ajit: check these two posts about my friend Prem Panicker's excellent English translation of Randaamoozham - <a href="http://jaiarjun.blogspot.com/2009/11/in-bhimas-voice-m-t-vasudevan-nairs.html" rel="nofollow">here</a> and <a href="http://jaiarjun.blogspot.com/2008/09/bhimas-story-thoughts-on-yudhisthira.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>. The full Bhimsen series is available <a href="http://prempanicker.wordpress.com/2009/10/05/bhim-complete-and-unabridged/" rel="nofollow">here</a>.Jabberwockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10210195396120573794noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-33521177207626534922010-08-27T09:38:51.196+05:302010-08-27T09:38:51.196+05:30Stumbled across your page while searching on "...Stumbled across your page while searching on "karve yuganta". In case you haven't already, do check out "Second Turn" by M T Vasudevan Nair (orig. Malayalam "Randamoozham"). Topsy turvy.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14482690282814470541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-79295274868372709612010-07-30T20:53:59.430+05:302010-07-30T20:53:59.430+05:30Anon: Karve herself did the translation from Marat...Anon: Karve herself did the translation from Marathi to English. I don't know about a Hindi version.<br /><br /><i>Later on you go over the words and the sharp intellect behind the words and you no choice but to agree with most of what the author has to say.</i><br /><br />I don't agree with this. It's possible to admire Karve's analysis and writing and to respect her opinions without actually agreeing with them. I personally disagree with a lot of things she's written here, but that doesn't affect my overall appreciation for the book.Jabberwockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10210195396120573794noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-84363746963239151772010-07-30T20:00:43.774+05:302010-07-30T20:00:43.774+05:30Dear Jai : Your comments are good and insightful....Dear Jai : Your comments are good and insightful. The original book by all means is a very provocative piece. <br />Indeed the first reading can shock a lay reader. Later on you go over the words and the sharp intellect behind the words and you no choice but to agree with most of what the author has to say.<br />I purchased the second English edition in 1991, still holding on to it well. Even though something might have been lost in translation from original in Marathi, it is still a wonderful work and I think the translator must be congratulated for that. <br /><br />Are you aware of a Hindi translation of this work.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-83364973703159387072010-07-30T19:59:35.056+05:302010-07-30T19:59:35.056+05:30Dear Jai : Your comments are good and insightful....Dear Jai : Your comments are good and insightful. The original book by all means is a very provocative piece. <br />Indeed the first reading can shock a lay reader. Later on you go over the words and the sharp intellect behind the words and you no choice but to agree with most of what the author has to say.<br />I purchased the second English edition in 1991, still holding on to it well. Even though something might have been lost in translation from original in Marathi, it is still a wonderful work and I think the translator must be congratulated for that. <br /><br />Are you aware of a Hindi translation of this work.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-89910613559548578292010-07-30T11:28:59.348+05:302010-07-30T11:28:59.348+05:30I also hold a keen interest on Mahabharata and I h...I also hold a keen interest on Mahabharata and I have tried to get hold of whatever books on the subject possible, and my efforts have been to find different perspectives, different voices. I think your blog in general is quite enlightening and engaging, in fact, the discussions going on in the ‘Comments’ section also are adding quite a lot to the Post itself. For e.g., I have read ‘Yuganta’ and through the comments here I also came to know about several other perspectives. I am sure going to be back for more!Reema Sahayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11287414476458432950noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-526364805200623552009-08-18T18:36:48.839+05:302009-08-18T18:36:48.839+05:30And yes, she could have been easier on Karna, he w...<i>And yes, she could have been easier on Karna, he wasn't entirely bad.</i><br /><br />wallpaper: good heavens, now <i>that</i> sounds harsh! Most readers I know think of Karna as one of the noblest characters in the epic. And yes, there's no way that Karve (or anyone else) can know anything about a character's motivations (or the complicated set of factors that combine to form a character's motivations) - but hers is a single perspective on the Mahabharata and its characters, not the final word.<br /><br />Of course, the fact that she is an anthropologist seems to carry its own weight and occasionally gives the impression that she's trying to lay down the final word! But the reader is under no obligation to accept that. I personally disagree with many of her interpretations, while still believing that she's being honest about them.Jabberwockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10210195396120573794noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-82023331592193977682009-08-18T18:25:39.247+05:302009-08-18T18:25:39.247+05:30Iravati Karve's Yuganta did give a fresh persp...Iravati Karve's Yuganta did give a fresh perspective to the characters in Mahabharata, but it somehow lands up conforming to the stereotypical notions of the characters that we've been subject to as children. The exposition on Krishna was particularly disappointing, maybe I was expecting something out of this world, but Karve ends up justifying, or at least supporting, his shifitng notions of dharma, etc., thus subscribing to the idea of "Krishna - the do-gooder, pure-intentioned soul".<br /><br />And yes, she could have been easier on Karna, he wasn't entirely bad. Throughout his wavering allegiances there is no way that Karve could have determined if Karna gave his promise to Kunti just out of spite.wallpaperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13375423868152120213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-26266957458327021512007-12-10T16:03:00.000+05:302007-12-10T16:03:00.000+05:30Mrityunjaya/Shivaji Sawant, in chaste Hindi would ...Mrityunjaya/Shivaji Sawant, in chaste Hindi would be worth a read.<BR/><BR/>Would like to hear your comments on that, please.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-50668260769854712182007-11-30T14:02:00.000+05:302007-11-30T14:02:00.000+05:30Parva by SL Bhyrappa a kannada novelist is epic no...Parva by SL Bhyrappa a kannada novelist is epic novel version of the Mahabharata - similar in perspective to Yuganta - well worth a read. Has been translated into english.<BR/><BR/>raviUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02784908845602876917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-18622364800461315072007-11-05T11:02:00.000+05:302007-11-05T11:02:00.000+05:30Great to see a post on Yuganta (though perhaps the...Great to see a post on Yuganta (though perhaps there is a grain of truth in the Bhagwat story). I liked Karve's compare and contrast with Greek women in mythology - if I remember correctly, she dismissed the general idea of Draupadi as a "strong" woman. Had particular resonance because I was reading Graves Greek Myths at the time......Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-71486540221236804242007-11-03T23:50:00.000+05:302007-11-03T23:50:00.000+05:30I do not know if you have read Mrityunjaya, and if...I do not know if you have read Mrityunjaya, and if you haven't, pick it up. <BR/>Karve's observation is interesting and engaging but relies on rhetoric. At least that is what I feel.<BR/>@Neha@ If by Aurobindo's notes, you mean the works by the Gandhian impersonator post-independence... well, leave that I do not want to be rude against someone who you believe in. I personally do not think anyone except Prabhupada and Vivekananda (courtesy his guru) have analysed Krishna that well. Karve's analysis, like I said is governed by opinion.moonstruck maniachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16566306531425060349noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-32778384579395604522007-11-01T06:14:00.000+05:302007-11-01T06:14:00.000+05:30Oh thank you Dipanjan!Oh thank you Dipanjan!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-56629819333296821692007-10-30T12:46:00.000+05:302007-10-30T12:46:00.000+05:30@Jai: Yuganta has been on my reading list for a lo...@Jai: Yuganta has been on my reading list for a long time. This review will push it to the top. Thanks.<BR/><BR/>@Neha: I have not read Aurobindo's notes. But the idea of "three layers" of Mahabharata and three different (sets of) writers was first developed by Bankim Chandra Chattopadhyay, who incidentally had a very strong influence on Aurobindo, in his seminal "Krishna Charitra".<BR/><BR/>The first layer is the "original" Chaturbishotisahasra Bharata Samhita which has the skeletons of the main story lines. This layer has the greatest literary value and in this, Krishna does not acknowledge his divine power. He is completely human.<BR/><BR/>The second layer was added not much later. However, it considers Krishna to be an incarnation of Vishnu. This layer's strengths are more spiritual and philosophical than literary.<BR/><BR/>The third layer has been added over centuries and aims at "mass education" as well as entertainment. According to Bankim, this layer explains why Mahabharata is called the "fifth Veda". Women and lower caste Hindus could not access Vedas, and the third layer of Mahabharata was designed to fill that void.Dipanjanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01615918701165933620noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-19821777596717595272007-10-30T12:07:00.000+05:302007-10-30T12:07:00.000+05:30Shwet: I'm not sure actually, because for some rea...Shwet: I'm not sure actually, because for some reason whenever I've gone there it's been through gate 6, which is not the nearest gate to the shop. But it's easy enough to find - has Electronic Zone written in white on a blue background. <BR/><BR/>Speaking of "seedies", you might want to check <A HREF="http://jaiarjun.blogspot.com/2006/01/of-porn-and-pasolini-palika-bazaar.html" REL="nofollow">this post</A>.Jabberwockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10210195396120573794noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-40251960980460624992007-10-30T10:24:00.000+05:302007-10-30T10:24:00.000+05:30Shop No. 34, which gate is this closest to? Going ...Shop No. 34, which gate is this closest to? Going to Palika these days is like going to a seedy , dingy place where shopkeepers are interested in selling you porn CD's. <BR/><BR/>Jai,if you can just tell me near which gate is the shop situated? It will spare me from roaming the whole bazzar and being heckled by CD sellers.Shwet Awasthihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04707072898697709519noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-80847780497591869072007-10-30T10:15:00.000+05:302007-10-30T10:15:00.000+05:30jai why do u brand all people who dont eat beef as...<I>jai why do u brand all people who dont eat beef as RSS?</I><BR/><BR/>Anon: I did that? Really? Wow, this means my mother and my wife are RSS. Must report them to the Liberal Police.<BR/><BR/>(This does give new meaning to the term "RSS feed" though.)<BR/><BR/>Also, if the Mahabharata "is a treatise that teaches u how to live life", why does that mean it shouldn't be analysed?<BR/><BR/>Neha: no, I haven't read the Aurobindo notes. Will try to get hold of them. <BR/><BR/>Rahul: The Electronic Zone in Palika Bazaar. Shop number 34 I think.Jabberwockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10210195396120573794noreply@blogger.com