tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post1115787620085856211..comments2024-03-27T14:57:37.031+05:30Comments on Jabberwock: Notes on Gulzar's Koshish (including a Dilip Kumar 'friendly appearance')Jabberwockhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10210195396120573794noreply@blogger.comBlogger28125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-53244052262985213782013-05-01T23:49:44.067+05:302013-05-01T23:49:44.067+05:30Jai,
I remember being in full sync with you on Sa...Jai,<br /><br />I remember being in full sync with you on Sanjeev Kumar's acting abilities, I think I commented on your blog some years back that I have never been convinced of Kumar's so called great acting talent.(I am in life threatening minority here).<br /><br />Even when you talk of Koshish, I think he seems convincing because he plays a mute character. An actor can only claim to be good if he can speak his dialogues with a finesse typical of great actors and not sound jarring,raucous or clownish on the ears.(A recent example of our times excelling in jarring delivery is Farhan Akhtar,but that is a discussion for some other time). In Kumar's case it was more of the latter.<br /><br />His constipated attempts at trying to sound different while mouthing his lines were studies in high camp. I don't mean to sound pompous or contemptuous but would just like to present my honest opinion. The reason why I am commenting on such an old post is that while Koshish was a decent movie and Kumar was bearable because the role was limited i would still not call his performance superlative . One main reason for this could be the torture I have endured at my colleagues and friends passionate orgasms on his being a great actor but on a serious note I have never been taken in by his so called great performances in other films.Shwet Awasthihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04707072898697709519noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-91406253828017738082012-02-19T19:49:54.747+05:302012-02-19T19:49:54.747+05:30And I see why you would wonder if I was the same R...And I see why you would wonder if I was the same Radhika...she uses the term "emotional blackmail" too :)Radhika Oltikarnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-14480788332752705852012-02-19T19:48:26.969+05:302012-02-19T19:48:26.969+05:30Hi Jai,
As expected, your post augmented my view ...Hi Jai,<br /><br />As expected, your post augmented my view point on the film :). Enjoyed reading it.Radhika Oltikarnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-42243177128822052312011-03-08T22:39:12.896+05:302011-03-08T22:39:12.896+05:30Enjoyed Koshish a lot. Very good film.
Dilip Kuma...Enjoyed Koshish a lot. Very good film.<br /><br />Dilip Kumar had seen Sanjeev Kumar in same frame in Sangharsh. He admired Sanjeev Kumar's acting abilities then also and gave him a gift on his good performance. Both were very good actors.VK Singhhttp://www.cinemanthan.info/index.php/2011/03/7khoonmaafreview/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-40982023169327252372011-03-07T07:10:52.405+05:302011-03-07T07:10:52.405+05:30Quizman: the Nanavati case has been written about ...Quizman: the Nanavati case has been written about very interestingly in Gyan Prakash's book <i>Mumbai Fables</i>, btw.Jabberwockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10210195396120573794noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-9066182995144279172011-03-07T00:16:31.349+05:302011-03-07T00:16:31.349+05:30I second Nightwatchman's comment on Achanak. T...I second Nightwatchman's comment on Achanak. The pace, structure and plot are very unlike Gulzar and the film is compelling to this day. It is loosely based on this case. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KM_Nanavati_v_State_of_MaharashtraQuizmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11954917456386552531noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-49911313284683845932011-03-05T09:26:59.304+05:302011-03-05T09:26:59.304+05:30Ajay: not sure about the distinction you make betw...Ajay: not sure about the distinction you make between "realistic stories" and popularism/catering to a general audience (there <i>are</i> occasionally happy endings in the real world too!). What matters, I think, is that the ending - whether it's audience-pleasing or not - should be internally consistent and believable given the arc of the story up to that point.Jabberwockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10210195396120573794noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-89152075366400853722011-03-05T08:13:42.178+05:302011-03-05T08:13:42.178+05:30Somehow I recall Aarti as refusing Hari because sh...<i>Somehow I recall Aarti as refusing Hari because she wasn't sure he could look after her, then he shows himself to be assertive and capable and she changes her mind.</i><br /><br />Radhika: well, that's a valid interpretation too - there'a a nice ambiguity to the scene where Hari (already upset about Arti having turned him down) strongly berates two men who were laughing at him.Jabberwockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10210195396120573794noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-33084728702351934572011-03-05T01:02:31.622+05:302011-03-05T01:02:31.622+05:30Wasn't Koshish based on a Japanese film? I rem...Wasn't Koshish based on a Japanese film? I remember reading that somewhere. <br /><br />I recall many vignettes from the movie, though I was just a kid when I saw it. SOmehow I recall Aarti as refusing Hari because she wasn't sure he could look after her, then he shows himself to be assertive and capable and she changes her mind. You said she saw his vulnerability, so I must be confusing the scenes in my mind. I remember feeling really sad when their child dies due to Asrani's burglary. And I remember Asrani - after seeing him playing only bufoony roles, it was quite unusual to see him playing this negative, exploitative role. Yeah, the ending jarred even as a kid. I recall feeling annoyed at the emotional blackmail by Hari - he chose a soulmate with whom he could communicate, but denied his son that privilege from some kind of misguided philanthropic drive.Radhikanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-25594353242830131612011-03-05T00:28:09.940+05:302011-03-05T00:28:09.940+05:30This is a common trait amongst Indian (read Bollyw...This is a common trait amongst Indian (read Bollywood) film-makers where <i>some</i> of them dare to take on challenging subjects, but succumb at the last minute to box-office performance pressure by providing a more <b>popular</b> ending.<br /><br />I watched the film Swades a few days ago and observed a similar ending. The film-maker, for 2.5 hours, presented an issue - a very realistic one, but then hurriedly wrapped up the film with a *popular* decision that the lead character takes to return to the village in India by bidding farewell to a successful NASA career. The filmmaker would have thought that if he had made the protagonist practical and made him choose his career at NASA, the general audience will not like the ending resulting in poor performance at the box-office. I feel that an even better ending would have been to keep an open ending as there is not easy solution to the issue at hand.<br /><br />On the contrary, and not to compare, in the movie "Ordinary People", the filmmaker chooses a realistic and non-happy and non-melodramatic ending where the family that lost a member <b>does not</b> live happily ever after. This is where the filmmaker chose to dare take a difficult subject, and stuck with it.<br /><br />As long as a realistic story that addresses realistic issues tries to <b>please</b> the general audience the story will never turn into a gem.<br /><br />I love reading your blog. Great job!Ajaynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-11173696862895761692011-03-04T20:31:16.173+05:302011-03-04T20:31:16.173+05:30Jai_C: as I clarified in an earlier comment, I did...Jai_C: as I clarified in an earlier comment, I didn't think the ending was a convincing portrayal of the characters' social conditioning/belief system. Hari's outburst at the end followed by Amit quick turnaround was much too pat and abrupt. That was the major problem.Jabberwockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10210195396120573794noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-29962660025324252662011-03-04T20:24:41.262+05:302011-03-04T20:24:41.262+05:30Sunil: oh I didn't say "deaf and dumb&quo...Sunil: oh I didn't say "deaf and dumb" should not be used, I said it isn't politically correct to say it these days. I've written elsewhere about how annoying it is when a word/phrase is replaced by another, more "acceptable" one, only for the replacement to eventually become equally tarnished because of association with regressive/prejudiced attitudes. The frequent changes can be tiresome for people who used the original phrase without any malice in the first place.<br /><br />Having said that, yes, "dumb" is a problematic word in this context. By the way, these days "mute" would be confusing because we tend to associate it more with our TV or computer controls!Jabberwockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10210195396120573794noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-72527550505489907972011-03-04T18:38:29.116+05:302011-03-04T18:38:29.116+05:30After saying that "deaf and dumb" should...After saying that "deaf and dumb" should not be used, why did you use the phrase in another place? :-)<br /><br />The reason for not using the phrase is the word "dumb" and "deaf and mute" is much more acceptable. It is because once people thought that because somebody couldn't speak, that person was "dumb" (less intellegent or stupid), which is not true.Sunil Deepakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05781674474022699458noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-28521109359314555982011-03-04T17:39:05.229+05:302011-03-04T17:39:05.229+05:30I havent seen this movie but a comment in general....I havent seen this movie but a comment in general...<br /><br />Its pretty realistic even today for class differences to matter a lot in arranged matrimony. I think the boss *was* trading social class against disability and SK's character also must have intrinsically accepted it.<br /><br />Not the way things "ought to be" today or yesterday either.No problem pointing it out either.<br />But just the way it was and still is in places. <br /><br />It seems to me that when we look for "realism" we want to look for gritty gaalis etc. but not a good portrayal of internalized biases or belief systems (or at least we want the movie to hold them up in overt disapproval).<br /><br />thanks,<br />JaiJai_Cnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-48629327937478862752011-03-03T11:19:34.658+05:302011-03-03T11:19:34.658+05:30All I wanted to point out is that while you and I ...<i>All I wanted to point out is that while you and I may disagree vehemently with the choices the character makes in a movie it does not necessarily follow that it was bad character development, script or direction or filmmaking.</i><br /><br />Oddan: completely agree - I should have been clearer about this in the post. Like I said in my last comment, the main issue isn't the worldview being portrayed but the disjointedness of the film's climax and ending. On the other hand, the worldview does in a way contribute to the slapdash ending.<br /><br /><i>I am just quibbling over the suggestion that you did not like the movie because you did not like the way a character behaved.</i><br /><br />Understood. Though I haven't said anywhere that I didn't like the movie!Jabberwockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10210195396120573794noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-4375522994339870672011-03-03T09:34:36.995+05:302011-03-03T09:34:36.995+05:30"..sense an undertone of quiet respect for an..."..sense an undertone of quiet respect for an idealized time when kids would toe the line and unquestioningly listen to their parents". No, I do not respect that era or attitude. I myself haven’t “toed the line”. All I wanted to point out is that while you and I may disagree vehemently with the choices the character makes in a movie it does not necessarily follow that it was bad character development, script or direction or filmmaking.<br /><br />I agree overall with you that in Koshish the last third of the movie is not in keeping with the overall tone and pace of the movie and I do not thing it is anything other than a merely good movie with some nice moments. I am just quibbling over the suggestion that you did not like the movie because you did not like the way a character <i>behaved</i>.oddanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15907599720368620488noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-35833043464492575582011-03-02T18:44:59.472+05:302011-03-02T18:44:59.472+05:30Nightwatchmen: no, haven't seen Achanak (proba...Nightwatchmen: no, haven't seen <i>Achanak</i> (probably did when I was a child but don't remember it). Will look out for it, thanks.Jabberwockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10210195396120573794noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-29711045264259510942011-03-02T18:44:21.092+05:302011-03-02T18:44:21.092+05:30KP and Oddan: you've made similar points and t...KP and Oddan: you've made similar points and to an extent I see what you mean, but let me try and address this more fully:<br /><br /><i>I feel that you are analyzing the movie through present day glasses.</i><br /><br />KP: well, okay, but so what? Surely you don't expect me to climb into a time machine, go back 40 years and <i>then</i> write about this film! :D<br /><br />But more seriously, I don't get this watertight distinction between how things were done then and how they are done today. Fact 1: there <i>were</i> some people, even in that social strata, 40 years ago, who would have defied their parents and asserted themselves (and there were parents who would eventually have given in). Fact 2: there <i>are</i> some people, even today, and in the most seemingly progressive communities, who are completely under their parents' thumbs in these matters. (You do know about "honour killings", right?) This past-vs-present divide isn't a clear one by any means.<br /><br />Also, I might be wrong about this, but in both your comments I sense an undertone of quiet respect for an idealised time when kids would toe the line and unquestioningly listen to their parents. But personally speaking I don't have much respect for that attitude, and naturally this colours my perspective on the ending. Even assuming that it was the "done thing" in the past, I don't think that justifies the emotional manipulation.<br /><br />More importantly, from a cinematic perspective, I thought the ending of <i>Koshish</i> was poorly done - it was much too abrupt and sketchy, and the film's suggestion that Amit is eventually happy with the decision isn't at all convincing. The last shot feels like a very hurried attempt to reach a happy ending. If the film had found a way to convincingly portray Amit's change of heart (perhaps by giving him a scene or two with the girl), it would have worked much better.Jabberwockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10210195396120573794noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-24107552399288988372011-03-02T18:12:50.775+05:302011-03-02T18:12:50.775+05:30Hello Jai,
I am a regular reader of you blog but c...Hello Jai,<br />I am a regular reader of you blog but compelled to post a comment for the first time.<br />I feel that you are analyzing the movie through present day glasses. For the period in time (those days) and social status of the characters both your judgment (about his son being forced to marry and class divide) on the movie seem to be misplaced. In earlier days a father would assert his choice on his son, as in present day a son can safely take a nice girl home and ask his parents for permission to marry and counter their opposition by saying "kya kharabi hai iis ladaki mein". And the one on class divide, it is apparent that Sanjeev Kumar has trait of sympathy in him for people with similar disabilities and he knows the difficulty such people face and he probably knows that even with such a status she will find life difficult and hence his agreement for the marriage.<br /><br />For once I did not find your comment on a movie unconvincing.<br /><br />KPKPnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-24466581767283457122011-03-02T09:44:33.314+05:302011-03-02T09:44:33.314+05:30Anon: thanks, corrected. (See, that's what hap...Anon: thanks, corrected. (See, that's what happens when they speak so softly!)Jabberwockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10210195396120573794noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-84598823268434648852011-03-02T09:41:12.659+05:302011-03-02T09:41:12.659+05:30The word is 'maddham'. Madhyam is a differ...The word is 'maddham'. Madhyam is a different word altogether.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-67239803591157026672011-03-02T09:09:14.674+05:302011-03-02T09:09:14.674+05:30I guess people(parents) in that day and age were l...I guess people(parents) in that day and age were like that. It is not unthinkable that perfectly able parents would react the same way with the son rejecting their choice of bride. So to me it did not seem a stretch that physically challenged parents would react in this way when their perfectly normal son rejects a physically challenged bride.<br /><br />Also I guess the movie was made in a different age where individual was subservient to the social group/community that he lived in today I guess the individual is supreme and a filmmaker of today would make different choices in terms of his treatment of characters/situations.<br /><br />Overall I felt that Koshish was a sympathetic albeit a simplistic portrayal of the life of a physically challenged couple.oddanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15907599720368620488noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-29130336065165224212011-03-02T00:08:31.415+05:302011-03-02T00:08:31.415+05:30I haven't watched it for a while but Koshish u...I haven't watched it for a while but Koshish used to be one of my favorite movies. Loved the little scene with Dilip Kumar.karrvakarelahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11564711886357771427noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-57609805785370820352011-03-01T22:11:42.930+05:302011-03-01T22:11:42.930+05:30well written. But Gulzar ji now a days only suppor...well written. But Gulzar ji now a days only support arushi an ngo with lesser creditionals, unfair, not the ones who approach him.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-31204303786135687282011-03-01T21:47:23.273+05:302011-03-01T21:47:23.273+05:30बहुत सही पकड़ा आपने. गंभीर विषय पर फ़िल्म हो तब ऐसा ...बहुत सही पकड़ा आपने. गंभीर विषय पर फ़िल्म हो तब ऐसा कोई किस्सा उसके मुख्य स्वाद को और उभारता ही है. और ठीक यही बात पलटकर भी ऐसे ही लागू होती है. ’पीपली लाइव’ जैसी पूरी बात व्यंग्य में कहती फ़िल्म में भी एक प्रसंग ऐसा है जहाँ अगर ड्रामा के बीच जनता हँस देती तो पूरी फ़िल्म ही बैठ जाती. जब राकेश पलटकर पूछता है कि, "नत्था ही क्यों स्टोरी है, होरी की मौत क्यों नहीं? और सबसे ऊपर, अब स्टोरी बनाकर फ़ायदा क्या क्योंकि होरी तो मर गया." यह क्षण फ़िल्म की आत्मा है और नवाज़ुद्दीन अपने काम की ईमानदारी से इसे बख़ूबी निकाल ले जाते हैं.<br /><br />एक दोस्त ने ट्विटर पर कहा था, "it's nattha's circus but hori's story."miHirhttp://www.mihirpandya.comnoreply@blogger.com