tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post7308419551423626744..comments2024-03-27T14:57:37.031+05:30Comments on Jabberwock: Harmonious notes – music and manliness in Alaap and ParichayJabberwockhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10210195396120573794noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-87998246942060084182014-05-09T18:15:15.270+05:302014-05-09T18:15:15.270+05:30Sorry for being OT, but wondering if you knew abo...Sorry for being OT, but wondering if you knew about a movie from the seventies starring Amol Palekar called Taxi Taxie, which apparently is inspired by Taxi Driver! <br />Rahulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08600228969911790479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-7261051843681936652014-05-08T18:10:46.064+05:302014-05-08T18:10:46.064+05:30Oh yes, HM came closer than anyone in utilising AB...Oh yes, HM came closer than anyone in utilising AB's talent. In fact, if we remove HM's films, AB's body of work wouldnt be half as good. Mili for instance was a small yet a very intense role. For the lack of a better word, these are the only films which had some maturityPessimist Foolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06057153008708242962noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-37288723852636830152014-05-08T12:55:04.738+05:302014-05-08T12:55:04.738+05:30Yeah, Naukri was amazingly bad. Yeah, Naukri was amazingly bad. pawannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-11742870359776594642014-05-08T12:46:53.143+05:302014-05-08T12:46:53.143+05:30the post isn't about the films in an all-inclu...the post isn't about the films in an all-inclusive sense, it is about a very specific aspect of their content. yes, good point about Yesudas and Amitabh: along those lines, it is notable that AB first got to do certain things in HM's films (the drunken bit in Namak Haraam for instance, or the general smouldering in Anand and Namak Haraam, or even the gibberish-spouting in Chupke Chupke) that he would later do in his more commercial roles. Think Susmita Dasgupta mentioned in her book that HM came closer than any other director to utilising the full range of AB's talents.Jabberwockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10210195396120573794noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-11645687319672579622014-05-08T12:37:44.427+05:302014-05-08T12:37:44.427+05:30Surprised that a piece about two music-themed film...Surprised that a piece about two music-themed films has no mention of the Music Directors.. anyway, random thought: if I remember correctly, Jaidev used Yesudas as playback for Amitabh in Aalaap, right before Khayyam did in Trishul, but everyone just remembers that one sullen, cynical verse in the latter. southpawpisceshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17344800554359835604noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-24144299042280077642014-05-08T11:46:41.602+05:302014-05-08T11:46:41.602+05:30Oh yeah, it should be Seven Sixes are Forty Three....Oh yeah, it should be Seven Sixes are Forty Three....Pessimist Foolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06057153008708242962noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-69531063472526584982014-05-08T11:24:58.199+05:302014-05-08T11:24:58.199+05:30Ravan and Eddie was published in the 1990s. Perhap...<i>Ravan and Eddie</i> was published in the 1990s. Perhaps you meant <i>Seven Sixes are Forty Three</i>. No idea who wanted to make it.Jabberwockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10210195396120573794noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-30768499656658912612014-05-08T11:01:54.168+05:302014-05-08T11:01:54.168+05:30lol, you saved me from making an effort :) On a di...lol, you saved me from making an effort :) On a different track, I read that some director of "serious" films wanted to make Raavan and Eddie into a film in late 70s. Nagarkar couldnt agree with him on the screenplay and the project was shelved. Any idea who was it? Benegal, Hrishida, Basu or someone else...Pessimist Foolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06057153008708242962noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-62750010003226593912014-05-08T10:53:18.223+05:302014-05-08T10:53:18.223+05:30P.S. don't go seeking out Naukri or Kotwal Saa...P.S. don't go seeking out Naukri or Kotwal Saab - neither of them is particularly good, though both have their moments. Still haven't seen Arjun Pandit.Jabberwockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10210195396120573794noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-2490480043125973772014-05-08T10:51:02.555+05:302014-05-08T10:51:02.555+05:30No, they continued to be on very good terms despit...No, they continued to be on very good terms despite <i>Alaap</i>'s failure - <i>Jurmana</i> was released in 79, though I think it had been in the making for many years. (There's a joke about that in <i>Gol Maal</i>.) <br />Yes, <i>Bemisaal</i> was easily one of AB's most interesting roles and best performances.Jabberwockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10210195396120573794noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-5242659392395514282014-05-08T10:36:50.185+05:302014-05-08T10:36:50.185+05:30will try to watch Naukri, Arjun Pandit and Kotwal ...will try to watch Naukri, Arjun Pandit and Kotwal Saab. Are DVD available of these films? I think Alaap also put an end to his collaboration with Bachchan even though they made a film called Bemisaal later. I found Bemisaal very interesting when I watched it some 12-13 years ago. The grey character was b'fully explored. Pessimist Foolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06057153008708242962noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-28647513336432087042014-05-08T10:23:33.191+05:302014-05-08T10:23:33.191+05:30Yes, Alaap was made during a 2-3-year period when ...Yes, <i>Alaap</i> was made during a 2-3-year period when he was apparently feeling quite low about things (specifically the Emergency and the climate it had created) and the films he made during this time reflected that sombre/pessimistic frame of mind: <i>Naukri</i>, <i>Arjun Pandit</i> and <i>Kotwal Saab</i> being the others. He came out of it spectacularly with <i>Gol Maal</i> (a film that found a light-hearted way of returning to the "Hitler" theme).Jabberwockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10210195396120573794noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-46082811464566624692014-05-08T10:06:33.451+05:302014-05-08T10:06:33.451+05:30Interestingly, the movie was suggested to me by a ...Interestingly, the movie was suggested to me by a friend who was a bit amused when Wake Up Sid! got all the acclaim. In his view, Alaap was a much superior film on the same theme and rarely ever spoken about. Pessimist Foolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06057153008708242962noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-56438748612430854662014-05-08T10:05:28.851+05:302014-05-08T10:05:28.851+05:30Alaap is a very interesting film. The use of music...Alaap is a very interesting film. The use of music was so good. I think Mukherjee used a classical singer who sang for the actress who was training Amitabh's character. Her voice was so good. I think even Om Prakash managed to do his role - very unlike what he was used to playing. Rekha's part was weak. I think there's also an anecdote on how Hrishida was affected due to failure of Alaap and had to make Golmaal or some other filmPessimist Foolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06057153008708242962noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-25215767598296161222014-05-07T23:06:58.638+05:302014-05-07T23:06:58.638+05:30So, I guess, success is the final deciding factor
...<i>So, I guess, success is the final deciding factor</i><br /><br />Not necessarily. It depends on a combination of factors. Nilesh in <i>Parichay</i> is successful too, but this being the world of classical music, his success doesn't translate into a large income and it doesn't count for much in his rich father's eyes. Subir in <i>Abhimaan</i>, on the other hand, is from a modest background and ends up becoming wealthy through his career in popular music - the music brings money as well as social status in his case.Jabberwockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10210195396120573794noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-16852643225429939112014-05-07T22:50:23.794+05:302014-05-07T22:50:23.794+05:30In Abhimaan, the same AB is a famous singer, his i...In Abhimaan, the same AB is a famous singer, his identity and fame synonymous with his voice. Until, of course, a more talented and lauded wife becomes a competitor than a companion. <br />In RockOn too, Joe needs to find an alternative career as long as he is unsuccessful. Only the successful and rich Farhan can afford to indulge in music as a wealthy past-time. <br />So, I guess, success is the final deciding factor. If yes, music as a career will be fawned upon. if not, it will be frowned upon.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-58967486215882045192014-05-07T16:39:22.097+05:302014-05-07T16:39:22.097+05:30the examples you gave did not convince me that men...<i>the examples you gave did not convince me that men become "feminine" when they sing and dance</i><br /><br />You didn't feel that way about the lavani dance sequence? Or about the <i>Biwi aur Makaan</i> songs I have written about earlier? Well, okay, in that case we probably have very different perspectives, or at least different ways of grading these things. But there are many other examples, some of which I have been writing about in the past few weeks (not intended for posting on the blog yet). Perhaps I'll return to this subject in the near future.Jabberwockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10210195396120573794noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-48969071222333359762014-05-07T16:36:01.426+05:302014-05-07T16:36:01.426+05:30They probably have unusually high levels of empath...They probably have unusually high levels of empathy, or what might be described as a strong feminine side. Or a strong female influence in their lives. Much like the (very few) male novelists who manage to create well-rounded women characters. Jabberwockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10210195396120573794noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-28370818965953481452014-05-07T16:18:22.062+05:302014-05-07T16:18:22.062+05:30(Going off on a tangent from "lyricists have ...(Going off on a tangent from "lyricists have mostly been male") <br /><br />These lyricists are unbelievably gifted. So many film songs perfectly express what women feel and think. Question is, how did these men know?Annienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-60926773445662331772014-05-07T14:33:17.796+05:302014-05-07T14:33:17.796+05:30Yes, I mean, we'd have to disagree, because fo...Yes, I mean, we'd have to disagree, because for each example that I quote, you could come up with another example that'd turn my assertion on its head, and I again could come up with an example that'd do the same to your claim. Like Joan Robinson said: (and this could very well be applicable to Indian films and songs, too): "Whatever you can rightly say about India, the opposite is also true". <br /><br />But, at least to me, a prodigious watcher of Indian films, the examples you gave did not convince me that men become "feminine" when they sing and dance. Perhaps you are making a point about the patriarchal and somewhat misogynistic point (not saying that you are a misogynist; merely that you are describing the misogyny of others) about Indians unwilling to see their men sing and dance, and express emotions openly. <br /><br />Women's humor was quite different in its portrayal, by the way, from men's. For women, it was about the giggly, churlish demeanor that women are supposed to express; while for men it was about the unabashed depiction of their own "animal nature" ("Chahe koi mujhe jungli kahe...") Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-3303434659431864302014-05-07T14:14:30.283+05:302014-05-07T14:14:30.283+05:30Well, like you say, you disagree, and we may have ...Well, like you say, you disagree, and we may have to leave it at that. But I don't see how specific examples like these can make a conclusive point one way or the other - I could counter with my own set of examples (some of which I have used on this blog in the past). And in any case, I wasn't saying anything like ALL Hindi-film songs or MOST Hindi-film songs perform these functions.<br /><br />This is a sweeping statement by the way, definitely not applicable across the board:<br /><br /><i>Women sing melodramatic, frivolous, romantic songs; men's songs -- when they are not romantic or funny -- have a certain gravitas to them, which is supposed to be associated with the notion of manhood. </i><br /><br />Good point about humour and farce. Though again, off the top of my head (and sticking with HM and Gulzar for the time being, since I have been watching a lot of their work lately), I can think of songs like "Bechara Dil Kya Kare" from Khushboo or "Hu Tu Tu" from Mem Didi, which contradict the idea that women aren't permitted to be humorous. Jabberwockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10210195396120573794noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8204542.post-76251926580512063672014-05-07T13:55:42.592+05:302014-05-07T13:55:42.592+05:30"Men become more “feminine” when they sing or..."Men become more “feminine” when they sing or dance, women can become more assertive and emotionally expressive than the codes of a conservative society would normally allow them to be; gender is transcended in each direction."<br /><br />Disagree with this, Mr. Singh. My assessment is that music in Indian films (even in Gulzar's films) reinforces manliness and womanliness in its own way. Women sing melodramatic, frivolous, romantic songs; men's songs -- when they are not romantic or funny -- have a certain gravitas to them, which is supposed to be associated with the notion of manhood. <br /><br />Which is why many sad songs by women are about resignation and acceptance("Waqt ne kiya, kya hasin sitam), while the same emotion in men's song is turned into contempt ("Yeh jo muhhabat hai, ye unka hai kaam...").<br /><br />Also consider the use of humor or farce, in Indian songs, which are assigned only to men. Men, presumably, can deal with a wider range of emotions, from sadness to jest. The same songs, would seem incongruent, if given a female setting, because the "chichoree ladki" image doesn't sit very well with Indians. <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com